Joel Kleber: 0:03

Thanks for joining me today on the lived experience podcast. Colin, you reached out via the contact form on my website. And you told me a little bit about yourself, but how about you introduce yourself to the listeners and tell us a little bit about your your background and why you wanted to come on today and share your story?

Coach Carly: 0:16

Sure. So I'm currently I live in Perth, Western Australia, originally from the UK grew up outside just outside of London, and then spent a lot of my kind of late teens and all of my 20s pretty much in London moved over here when I was 29. And, yeah, I currently work as I run a business doing change and trauma coaching, so life coaching, working in the kind of mental health space, a big one of my passions is helping people kind of through suicide prevention strategies and recovery from child abuse. And I also do energy work. So I teach Reiki workshops and do lots and lots of energy treatments all week long. So and work in the Justice space, too. So lots of mental health stuff there lots of people with addiction issues and all kinds of issues that kind of go with that as well. So and I suppose the reason that I reached out to you or listened to your podcast, the, I think last week, I was listening to it, and you're talking about your experience of having kind of been raised by a mom who had bipolar. And it was just triggering all kinds of flashbacks for myself, you know, from a relationship that I had 15 years ago now. So showing my age in my mid 20s. And yeah, I just kind of wanted to reach out to you, I suppose to share, I suppose that side of of a story as well, you know, in terms of being a partner of someone who's got those kinds of issues. And yeah, I just wondered if it would be something that your audience might want to hear?

Joel Kleber: 1:45

Well, I think it definitely is because it's I haven't had someone who's been the partner of someone with bipolar disorder, it's generally been someone with bipolar disorder, or a children or or a family member affected by it. So maybe, yeah, John, and maybe just start off with what's bipolar disorder to you? What do you define as? Or how would you describe it to someone? Or what's your definition of your experience with it?

Coach Carly: 2:06

Yeah, I suppose when I got together with my partner, my ex partner, he, he was undiagnosed. So he had four manic episodes during the three years that we were together. And then the last 18 months he was in just major depression. What I've no I think he was my first experience of being around anyone with bipolar I'd experienced a lot of people with depression, anxiety, that kind of thing, but not bipolar. So he was kind of my, my entry into that world. And I've since worked with a lot of people who have Bipolar, and I've noticed that everyone has different cycles, there's generally mania, depression, kind of a period of stability in between, but everyone's cycles can be really different from what I've noticed. So you know, some people have really long cycles in between some people don't necessarily get the as depressed, but they have more hypomania. So just seeming like they really a bit hyperactive and very, very energized, you know, so that's not necessarily the type of mania that will lead someone into psychosis, which is what my ex partner was in quite a lot, quite for quite a long time. So I've seen a lot of different types of bipolar with people and but what I've noticed a lot of is substance abuse goes heavily with it for for pretty much all the people that I've encountered. Yeah, so and, and something else that I've kind of found is that people really like being manic. I think you mentioned that when you were talking about your mom as well, you know, and I found that with my ex partner as well, you know, when, when, when they're in this stage of mania, even when they're really psychotic. For them, it's not necessarily a problem. They're having a great time. It's the depression they don't like.

Joel Kleber: 3:55

Very right collar. Yeah, they're when they're high, it's a good thing. And if unless you're unless you're in that situation, you never gonna really know I guess, but um, it but it can be quite confronting as the partner on the other foot. So maybe you want to describe, just maybe just describe to people like because people just think generic bipolar disorder up and down. And, you know, there's not much else to it, but obviously, as you would know, someone being psychosis or, or being manic, it can be very confronting, it can be very frustrating as well smoke to describe a bit from your perspective about that sort of,

Coach Carly: 4:24

yeah. It was really scary at times. As I said, he hadn't been diagnosed when we met. So later on, when we spoke about, you know, after he was diagnosed, I kind of spoke to him about did he think he'd experienced minor in the past? And he said, Yeah, I definitely think I have. What I found was it was really difficult for me to actually kind of get in LinkedIn with mental health treatment. So I suppose some of the earliest signs where he just wouldn't Shut up, when we were trying to watch a movie, you know, I remember trying to watch a movie with him just try and chill out for a bit. And he would just talk nonstop for five hours. And you'd have to keep, you know, he'd get up and you pause the movie, and you're just like, God, you know, when are you going to stop talking. And it wasn't necessarily really obvious that he was in psychosis. Initially, he was just very, very hyperactive, you know. And later on, I was training at the time to be a probation officer in London. So I was also kind of starting this new, really full on job. I'd done my psych degree and forensic psych masters at uni, but then I'd kind of, I was temping for a couple of years in a bank. And then this was my first kind of proper career base job. And I started that in March 2007. And then we met, I think it was around June. So I was still really, really fresh into this job. It was two years of training, I was doing another degree as part of the training as well. So it's a really full on job, and I come home, and I was learning loads about mental health and some of the stuff that was learning about mental health, but also family violence stuff. You know, in my training, I was it was just sparking all these things in my consciousness about, you know, what, I'm going through that home, this is what's happening in my house, you know, we weren't living together initially. But I'd leave work, I'd come home, and there'd be all these screwed up notes, just scribbling. There's all these scribblings that he'd been, he'd been doing all day long, you know, just scrunched up notes of paper, literally covering the entire floor, you couldn't see a space you couldn't see the Weather Floor was just all his ideas and random musings in his head. He started typing into his iTunes search bar, because he thought that his you know, he would type a question or whatever, and then his music would give him the answer or would be talking to him in some way. And now, if we were, we were part of a pretty big friendship group in London at that point, and we were going out socializing a fair bit. And some of the reactions that, you know, you'd get from people were not very nice at times, and I, you know, people calling say, yelling in the street, you're effing crazy as you're walking past. And while you're, as a couple trying to figure out what's going on. And he was trying to trying to kind of make sense of his world that he was experiencing, I was thinking, What is going on? And how can I help him. And so you know, that that level of lack of understanding, I suppose, from some of the people around us didn't, didn't really make me want to open up and talk to some people, I did have some really close friends that I could speak to, and I kind of have a big friendship group, I kept it very, very small in terms of the people that I was probably talking to about what's going on. And when he was properly in psychosis, that was when it got really scary, you know, he before we live together, he came around to my house, and he just started packing up all my stuff. And, you know, I was trying to take a while I think for, for me to get out of him what he was actually doing. And in his mind, I was in danger, because people were off to him. So he needed me to move in with him. And then he was packing up all my stuff so that I could go live with him. And I, that was a time where I just had to roll with his delusions, because I realized that there was kind of sometimes no way of getting out of what his thought process was, it's like, I almost found the same when I was working with some autistic children who, you know, if they saw the sky is green, you could not argue with them and say it was blue. You know, it's their own perspective on things, right. So in his mind, I was in danger, because of him. And so I just had to roll with that delusion and say, okay, so if I'm in danger, because of you, am I not safer not living at your house, and eventually he agree with and kind of let let me stay in my house. And it's pretty crazy. So yeah, all these weird things would happen all day long. And I just, it was a three year period of my life. And when I think back on that period of time, I just think how many crazy things happened all day long? You know? And how did how did we get through that? You know, he would call me at work non stop to check that I was okay. Or to check that before I was really there. Because God knows what was happening in his mind. When we we tried initially myself on his sister, to stage an intervention to get him to voluntarily come with us to the hospital or to a doctor, and in his mind, he was completely fine. So that that didn't go very well at all. I think anyone who's in a carer role for anyone with mental health issues would probably, you know, have had that experience at some point where someone kind of is just not really wanting to engage in that support. So he hadn't been diagnosed at that point. We were just trying to figure out what was going on. And eventually I I went away. I remember a couple of periods of time where my mom took me away because she could See that I wasn't coping very well. I wasn't telling my parents very much, you know, because I didn't really want them to worry about me. But they knew that things weren't good. And I went away to the Lake District with my whole family. So up near Scotland a long way away from London. And we were on this walking holiday. And so I didn't have very good phone reception up there. And when whenever my phone whenever my phone would kind of start picking up some reception, I just get inundated with messages. Initially a lot from him, because it was kind of just he was hounding me at that point, you know, and then later on, I would get voicemails from friends. And one of them said, he's, he's in a psych ward, you need to come home, because I was his guardian at that point has he was from New Zealand, and I was pretty much his primary carer. So I had to have this horrible memory of getting on a train at six in the morning. With my mum, I remember being on the phone to a friend and just organizing, going back home, with my mom standing there and just saying, What are you doing? Why are you going back? You know, and just thinking, what am I supposed to do? You know, my partner is in a mental health unit. And I'm his guardian. You know, I can't just stay here and have a holiday. You know, and I just remember that, I think it's like a six hour train journey or something. Just thinking, what am I? What am I going into, you know, I don't know what I'm going to find. A friend of mine, who's whose mum has bipolar. So he kind of had that experience and knew that he could support me through I suppose he came to the hospital with me. And my partner at the time, then thought that me and him were having an affair. So he he got really aggressive. And he he pinned me up against the wall, kind of with his arm like that, with my neck kind of just pinned up to the wall. And he got pretty quickly ripped off me by security nurses and stuff and jabbed in sedated. And it was just a really scary experience. And I remember talking to the psych nurses and stuff, and they were, I suppose, interviewing me about his symptoms. And you know, because they weren't really getting much out of him. interviewing me about his symptoms, and what I suppose my experience of him had been leading up to him going into that psych ward. And I remember how difficult it was to like by then I realized through lots doing lots of research that I thought he had bipolar. And I remember the frustration of almost not necessarily not being believed, but thinking, how hard is it to get this diagnosis happening? You know, they were about to release him from hospital with no diagnosis, no help. And I remember that kind of feeling of frustration. The whole reason that he'd ended up in a psych ward, luckily, you know, and I think this is a common theme as well. People get picked up by police and then taken to a mental health unit he had gone. While I was away, he'd gone to visit a friend. And his wife had answered the door and she was heavily pregnant. And the way that he was acting really, really scared her. So they called the police, he got picked up and taken to a psych ward. And he was in there, I think it was a two or three week period, and the whole time he was in there. Whenever I would go and visit him, which is on my lunch break from work, it's really I realized how messed up it was at the time, I'm working down the road as a probation officer and on my lunch break and go into this cycle to go visit my partner. And, and he was being he was on 24 hour observation. So they were just non stop watching him. And I remember us trying to find, like a little beanbag in a corner that was kind of way past a little peephole for the door, so that we could actually just hang out together and have some privacy. And and I walked away thinking if I was being watched 24/7 I would probably lose my mind as well. You know, I thought that was kind of it wasn't necessarily a realistic assessment that they would get from someone when they're non stop invading their privacy. I've rambled a lot, so feel free.

Joel Kleber: 14:27

Now you're describing the experience, if anyone's listening, who's got to love my family, my family member, a loved one who's got bipolar disorder, they would have had a similar similar experience to you if that person has been into a psychiatric ward and it can be very confronting because I experienced as a really young kid but you went in there as an adult so you'll see a lot more aware of what was going on it can be very confronting place and then you're in a room with the person and yeah, so what was the obviously you describe the you know, putting up against the wall and stuff which would have been very traumatic experience, but what was your overall impression of the psychiatric ward? You describe it for people what it's actually like. So I'm sure England and Australia be very similar I believe in in and now their institutions. Yeah.

Coach Carly: 15:07

Yeah. Yeah, I've Well, I've never been to a nice one. Yeah, and you know, I've worked in the mental health space for a long time here in Perth. And yeah, I think that

Joel Kleber: 15:21

was a great lens imperfect or I was yeah, it was just, that was when I went to as a kid. Yeah.

Coach Carly: 15:25

Yeah. And, and it deserves its name. You know, it's not, it's not, there's no colorful land there, that's for sure. They're just really depressing places to be. And I can't imagine what it would be like to be actually an inpatient there, you know? And just, uh, yeah, there's I don't think there's, I don't know what the answer is with it, you know, but they're not nice places to be in and I can see how even going in there with you know, I've worked with a lot of people who kind of will check themselves into places like that and private hospitals here in Perth for a bit of respite, I suppose. But I can't imagine doing that on a voluntary basis. And then spending time in the energy of that with all the people around and everyone kind of shuffling around drugged up on claws opinion, everyone kind of looks a bit like a zombie. And they're scary places. You know, I go in there a lot as a professional, but they're still scary places. And especially when you're you're locked in there against your will, you know, he really he came out a different person who was pretty heavily medicated and stuff and not very accepting. I don't think of his diagnosis. And, yeah, he didn't want to go back. He didn't go back. I don't know if he's gone back. I kind of had, I had to cut contact after I left him, you know, so I'm not sure if he's been back in that scenario. But I know it wasn't a nice experience for him at all.

Joel Kleber: 16:58

Well, Grayling's in Perth, it was that was my mom was in the in an elder a lot of time. And so we're gonna talk about gray lands because it's good to hear from someone who's knows knows what it's like to describe it. Because I remember when I was younger mum was there and she was in the locked ward. And there was no, there was no lights on the lamp. So there's no extension cords. There's no belts and stuff like that. And when you're a kid, you sort of go well, why is there no where's the lamp? And why don't you have a belt? And why can't you have this and that and it's up fabious reasons. Now I know about it. But um, yeah, you're right, you're 24 hours and you have someone who's manic and high. And you've been put into this, this room which has got no stimulation whatsoever. There's nothing in there that you wish you can use as a anything to harm yourself. It's it may or must be very from their perspective, it must be very just be just be very weird, just very automated, not helpful. That makes

Coach Carly: 17:43

me really, really clinical places. You know, it's not, there's nothing. I like being surrounded by comfy cozy stuff like nice fluffy blankets and cushions and my dog and you know, if you hear any weird noises by the way, I've got a bulldog and she'll saunter in and out and probably do some weird noises. But yeah, there's not there's nothing comforting or comfortable about being in a place like that. And, you know, when you when you've got someone that's really paranoid and in psychosis being watched all the time, you know, is it not gonna make them better? No. It's really not

Joel Kleber: 18:17

that but also the, you're right, you describe it when people go, that's really hard furniture. There's nothing, you know, there's no adjusted, there's no blankets, there's no real color in it. Like gray lands, especially, it's really dripping dragon like and yeah, as you said, everyone's zonked out. And there's a lot of, you know, from being the kid but going through there was a lot of people didn't want to be around too much. But that's there was, you know, we were around them a lot. But, um, yeah, it's just a not a not a not a good place. So I don't know how, from your perspective, obviously, not a lot more that better than me. But what some stuff that you know, about, well, what would you do at a facility like that to make it obviously, needs to be safe still, but to make it more conducive to, let's say, healing environment, or more

Coach Carly: 18:58

peaceful? Yeah, I think there's nothing wrong with having a bit of color in a place like that, you know, the office that I work in now, it's, you know, there's color on all the walls, they're nice bright colors, there's art everywhere, they've got kitchens with like hanging fake hanging plants as balconies everywhere, so people get some nice sun exposure and stuff, you know, there's there's plenty that they could do to make a place like that. More inviting is completely the wrong word. But you know, to make it more comfortable to be in to make it a bit more inviting, less clinical, you know, and I think it really needs a bit of that something that that makes people I suppose a bit more reassured especially when they're in there for a really long time because some people are in there for ages.

Joel Kleber: 19:45

Yeah, yeah. We always used to get a bag and bring into mom should demand a whole these all these things somehow and we had to bring him in and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, you're right. They're very, they're very full on places if you're not exposed to it. Well, it's gonna it's gonna say as well from your perspective, how do you deal with I'm having a panic bipolar sort of three years. How did you deal with yourself personally in regards to looking after yourself? Or just how did you? How did you manage the relationship because I think it's a very important thing to hear that we don't hear about it too much in mental illness, talk or awareness, it's always generally about the focus is on the person, there's never much focus around the person just like yourself, the partner, or the kids, or whatever. So

Coach Carly: 20:23

yeah,

Joel Kleber: 20:24

how'd you get it? From your perspective? How did you deal with it all,

Coach Carly: 20:27

I've always been someone that's had a lot of personal development tools that I've been regularly using for myself, and keeping a routine I think, is really important. So I know that if I don't exercise, like, for me, I pretty much exercise every day, if I don't do that my mental health doesn't, you know, eventually kind of goes downhill. So making sure you're eating the proper foods, drinking enough water, the real basic kind of stuff, you know, making sure you're getting enough sleep, which during that time, when you're when you're in a relationship with someone with mania is really difficult because they're awake, a lot more than normal. So you kind of have to manage that sleep disturbance for yourself, talking to people that are trusted, you know, not talking to everyone. I think before that I was I'm generally really open book, I don't mind talking about my stuff at all. I don't care if other people talk about my stuff, generally. But when I was with him, what I noticed is that I wasn't just sharing my own stuff. I was also talking about someone else's really personal stuff. So I really had to be careful about who I spoke to, and really learned quite early on. Who, you know, people who I thought were trusted friends couldn't necessarily lean on them in the way that I wanted to. So just having it became a very small group of people that I would trust, I suppose with that. Some people that I could be really vulnerable with as well, who I felt like you know, those times where I've been a mess that needed scraping off the floor. They're the people that have done it. They'd feed me they'd give me water, they put me to bed kind of thing. You know, it's like I was a kid again. And yeah, just kind of really talking to people. I think the environment that the industry that was working in was kind of helpful in a way because it's the kind of field where you do have to do a lot of debriefing because of the nature of the work. So I would lean on my workmates, you know, they they kind of understand a lot more about mental health and a lot of my friends did I use energy work a lot so I did energy work on myself every single day didn't necessarily move me forward in the way that it does. When I'm I'm more stable and my life's more stable, but it kind of I kind of kept seeing this picture of like a hamster on a wheel. I felt like it was that you know, and things like energy work and meditation and that kind of stuff would just stop me from completely falling off sideways during those periods of time, you know, so yeah, I think that's that's pretty much it.

Joel Kleber: 22:56

For me what energy work is up or not naughty? What energy work? I do. So what's Yeah, sure synergy. What can you describe for people?

Coach Carly: 23:03

Okay, so just like we've got a really complicated physical body, we've also got a really complicated energy system as well. So if you imagine that each of us has like a rechargeable battery, and plugging into an energy treatment, or even things like things like a massage or acupuncture, reflexology, something like that, it's like plugging yourself into the recharge. So energy work tops up the physical body, the energy body to kind of balance and correct everything. That's that's kind of going a bit squiffy, I suppose. So, you know, I suppose the equivalent if you compare it to the physical body, if you stopped giving yourself proper food, if you stopped drinking enough water, if you stopped doing those things that nourish you, eventually, the organs in your body would kind of start shutting down, it's a bit the same with your energy field as well. So the more you can kind of, I suppose remove negative energies that might be affecting you and I suppose complete energy hygiene really is like almost like brushing your teeth in the morning, you know, the more you can kind of rid yourself of anything that might be impacting your your energy field and the new consequently your physical body as well. So

Joel Kleber: 24:09

yeah, that's something new. Now with the What were you surprised as well back back when you experienced this, about this, the lack of the, let's say, processes or system around because people with bipolar disorder, it's very hard because what happens is, is that they want to make themselves voluntary. It's very rare that they want to go voluntary, even though they're starting to get unwell. Family members or partners, we'll know that they're getting unwell, but there's a gap between them getting the gate starting to get unwell and they get really unwell. And then you've got that gap in between where there's not much really you can do so from your perspective. If what could be done during that period or, or what would you like to see happen?

Coach Carly: 24:48

I think a big part of it is the person who has bipolar, kind of getting into a place of acceptance that that's what's going on for them because I think there's a tendency of a they feel better after a period of time and medication, then they just think they're better. And then they don't think that they've got it anymore. And, and sometimes, you know, the medications as well, they have to go through so many different trials of different medications before they find the right one. And that can be really difficult for them as well, you know, to, like, can understand why they wouldn't want to take it. But yeah, you're right, there's that there is that gap, they kind of get better. And then there's that period of stability, which for some people is a really long time. And for other people is a really short time, you know, I've got I know someone who kind of has week long cycles with that. And I think it's about really, when they are Well, coming up with a safety plan, I think is really important, you know, a safety plan with their trusted people that they love to, to, for them to say, okay, when you're on Well, these are the different things that I notice and write that stuff down. And you know, they won't notice it, the person that becomes unwell, won't notice it straightaway. But you can talk to them about what signs do you start seeing when you know, you're becoming unwell? And what can we do about it, what what is most helpful to them, when they know that they're going off track, I think doing those things, and coming up with that safety plan is really important when the person is in that period of stability. Because and I do this with clients at work as well, you know, I'll come up with that safety plan with them. And then because you've created that together, in partnership with them, when they do when you do start seeing those signs and symptoms, and you can say, hey, remember that we spoke about this, I'm just going to pull this out and show it to you to remind you, this is what I see happening right now. And these are the things that we both agreed would happen, like, you're gonna see Dr. X, or you, you know, review your medication, or we go to the beach, or we talk to someone or whatever it might be, these are the things that we can do together. And I can help you with that. To stop you going completely off the rails, you know, like I after the first time after my partner came out with what my ex partner came out of hospital, we went back home and he was really depressed. And we're still kind of getting used to his medication. I don't think he liked the way that the medication made him feel. I think he was on lithium, and also a he was on two different kinds of medications. I can't remember what the other one was now, but he didn't like the way that he was feeling, I think because he felt, you know, he'd gone from feeling really high and energized to just feeling nothing. And I think that's a real big thing for a lot of people is that they would rather feel something than nothing. And I completely understand that, you know, so he stopped taking his medication. And I don't know how long it was before I started noticing he was getting on? Well, again, that's the only way that I knew that he'd stopped taking his meds and I lost my mind at him. Because I you know, we had been through a lot together by that point. And a lot of people in our circle had also gone through a lot because what was going on. And I was really upset with him that he hadn't spoken to me before just making that decision himself. Because we were supposed to be a team. You know, and to me, it almost felt like he wasn't committed to, to recovery. And that's when I felt like I kind of I lost the fight for myself and thought what am I doing here. So I think to have those open conversations with people when they are well and to all agree on it together rather than that person feeling like they're being dictated to, because a lot of people in their life are doing that, you know, and then they don't necessarily trust the doctors who were telling them to do all these different things, when you can actually have an agreement with someone that these are the steps we'll put in place, if we start seeing these kinds of things happening. It's a lot more powerful. It's, you know, you're having the power back to them.

Joel Kleber: 28:46

You said a lot of really good information in there, I want to unpack, Kelly, and one of them was about the acceptance of the disorder or of the condition because I think that's a common thing. Maybe people who have bipolar disorder listening again, that's not right. But from my experience, from your experience, I experienced the same thing. Even with my mom who was like 60 years old, you know, it was very hard for her to accept bipolar disorder and then to make sure that she adhere to medication every day. But then you look at it from their perspective, and you're and you go well, I'm sick of trying all these different chain I feel like I could walking experiment all the time, I've got to take this medication and I've got a blood test to make sure my heart's got any issues with this one and all this sort of stuff and they just get sick of it you know, taking six to five tablets a day and two times a night or whatever it is right so I can understand from their perspective but I think what you said is really important is about the acceptance of the condition and then having personal responsibility to manage it as best as you can for yourself and for your loved ones. I think that's the but I got really frustrated with with my mum was that she even if she wanted to but it just never really got to that stage where there was that sort of acceptance to do that and and presume from your experiences was the same. Yeah, absolutely.

Coach Carly: 29:51

And I do you know, I've got I've also got people in my life who used to be who have Bipolar, used to be taking medication and then came off medical because they were really, they were really finding alternative ways of looking after themselves that that worked to a point where they didn't necessarily need that medication anymore, but they very, very safely came off medication by talking to their, their trusted GP and, and by speaking to their family about it, and you know, and, you know, with caution coming off those things, but it needs to be replaced with with things that nourish your body and your mind, you know, proper food, exercise, Sunshine supplements, you know, whatever it is that you need to do to keep you well and healthy, I think is, you know, rather than, like a lot of people in the mental health space, who are signed off on disability support and can't afford to eat proper food, so they will just eat McDonald's three times a day, like that stuff's not going to nourish your brain. So, you know, it's, it keeps you in that loop, doesn't it have not been? Well?

Joel Kleber: 30:58

Yeah, it's I think it's reflected in the NDIS packages now. So if you know, if you thought I was on a Disability Support Pension, and yet, you get an NDIS package, and a large part of the package was gym, nutritionists, someone coming around making sure they took medication every day someone or making takeout. So it was more of a holistic package with different services, which I think sort of China, which is slowly starting to sink in, like, you know, you can't just expect to have someone have medication, as you said, a lot of junk food, not doing the exercise, not socializing, and be well, they might stay well for a little bit. But having that holistic look at the health, which is the basic stuff, but it's stuff that's sort of not get brushed by the wayside when it comes to the

Coach Carly: 31:36

mental. And it's also stuff that is more expensive than going to buy junk food and just taking vacation, isn't it because these these alternative therapies and stuff, they don't necessarily come cheap, and that's where the individual packages like MDRs are really beneficial. You know, when people do have that funding, and they can make their own choices about where to spend their money, then then it's much easier. But you know, a lot of people don't have access to those funds, unfortunately. So

Joel Kleber: 32:03

yeah, it's a tough one. Because if you're not under the Disability Support, pension, and you've got bipolar disorder, yeah, you've got to source all that stuff yourself, or until you till you get that, but I'm gonna say as well, you mentioned your trauma coach, as well. And I think a lot of people who have, who grew up with parents with mental illness and stuff have a lot of trauma, they might not realize it. So now we're gonna talk about trauma from your perspective and some things and some strategies around that.

Coach Carly: 32:30

Yeah, so a big part of trauma, I think, is being stuck in that in that very much the primal brain where you're just in, fight, fight, fight, flight, or freeze all the time. And like I know from from that three year period, I was I was just constantly running on adrenaline and you can, your body can only do that for so long before it goes completely kaput. So, so when you're in those spaces, where you've either been in childhood trauma, and or adult trauma, and everyone you know, life is full of trauma, isn't it for a lot of people, you go through those kind of periods of time. And it's really important to when you come out of when you when you're going through that trauma to support your body, and your mind, and your soul is as much as you can. And then once you're kind of out of that, I suppose that that's whatever is creating that trauma in your life. If it comes to an end, it doesn't always fit for some people. Often what happens with people is that you go through that period of burnout because your adrenals is just so overwhelmed. It's and you know, just fried, that it can lead to that burnout, or people get stuck in that trauma loop in their brain. And it's like, the brain hasn't processed the traumas or trauma that's that they have experienced in their life. And so it's just almost stuck and it needs processing. So techniques like EMDR eye movement, eye movement, desensitization reprocessing that psychologists use that is a really really beneficial technique to actually process trauma in the brain. Things like EFT Emotional Freedom Technique tapping, which is just go on YouTube and search EFT. There are so many amazing free videos on EFT that you can use as many videos as you want all day long. You know, that kind of stuff helps to those kinds of tools kind of help to just process the trauma in the brain and just help your I suppose calm your nervous system. So that's one of the most important parts of recovery from trauma is just learning that you have a trauma response, which has fired up and fried your nervous system and there are lots of different things that you can do to calm your nervous system. Same kind of things that we spoke about before you know, sunshine, water, get plenty of sleep, nourish your body with food, but there's also plenty of other things that you can do just to calm your nervous system. It does not happen overnight. It's a you know, those habitual things that you build into your every single day that you just have to keep plug getting away with while you just start feeling better and better, hopefully,

Joel Kleber: 35:06

now with, because this podcast really focuses on the family unit with people who've got seminars, and I think a lot of people who live in that thing, I certainly didn't think I had trauma, or PTSD or anything like that. Whereas my, my sister, on the other hand, got help for it and was telling me all this stuff, I'm sort of gambled. I didn't really feel that at all. But when I look at it objectively, now, if somebody if I told it to someone else, what would happen? They would go Oh, yeah, absolutely. So from your perspective, like, how does someone know if they have, let's say, trauma or emotional trauma, because a lot of people might go through some tough things and just think, oh, yeah, that was just the way it was the way it was, and then line in the sand, and then away they go. But they probably don't realize there's things in their life that they're doing current day, which are responses to something from back then whether it be might be, they might overeat, they might drink, they might not be good at relationships, whatever it is, but they never really deal with it. So I would really rate on that.

Coach Carly: 35:57

Yeah, so I suppose there's a few different categories that people fall into, you know, I do see a lot of people just go into that avoidance stage where they might just, you know, overuse, alcohol overuse drugs, not talk about anything, like there was a client that I worked with, who he had walked in on his friend having hung himself, and he never wanted to talk about it. But everything that happened in his life after that point, was just, you know, his trauma response, but in his mind, he's like, No, I'm fine, I'm not talking about it, you know, and he would freeze up and just get really angry, and his, so he would drink a lot, take out his anger on everyone else around him, you know, so he was, anyone would say that he was just not a very nice person to hang out with. But really, when you dug down into how he really felt, you know, he was actually a really vulnerable person who couldn't, couldn't show his vulnerability at all. So that is a trauma response. And especially common as a guy in Australia, you know, where you're just told to toughen up, harden up, you know, chin up kind of thing, just get on with things. Either trauma responses that some people don't really see as trauma responses, but I see memes every now and again, or not memes, but you know, quotes, floating around on Facebook every now and again, where I think I saw on this morning actually about talking about how some people might be called, like a wise soul, or like an old soul. And they're, they're, like, mature beyond their years kind of thing, when they're when they're very young kid. They will generally end up in helper type professions, right? So they want to be the healer, or the counselor, or whatever it might be. And, and that's their way of dealing with trauma, because they've been, I suppose, especially for kids growing up in, in, in environments where mum or dad or both, or people around them have mental health issues, substance abuse issues, whatever it might be, they become the parent, you know, so they're the ones that just have to grow up really quickly, look, after themselves, pack their lunch, take them off to school, you know, and they becomes the one become the ones that they they love helping other people with their problems. But that can also be a bit of an avoidance tactic for for dealing with their own stuff, right, I definitely went through a period of time of doing that. And it becomes to your detriment, because you're not really focusing on your own stuff. And then there's people who are obviously in PTSD and stuck in that trauma loop where they're full of anxiety, they're not sleeping, and they're getting flashbacks, you know, they they're not coping at all with life, they can't work. They're not fueling their body in the right way. They don't, they don't have great relationships and friendships around them. They get stuck in those addictive cycles and, and then some people spend their whole lives like that, you know, so all of those different things are trauma responses, they're just some are not as obvious as others.

Joel Kleber: 38:53

Thanks for that information. But how can someone recognize it and then snap themselves out of because I think when you say these things like you, I would say most people, in some regard have some sort of trauma in some capacity, some obviously more serious than others. But I don't get a lot of people who listen to this could nod their head and something in their life is would be a trauma response to what they're doing. So how can someone first identify themselves and actually look at it and then go, Well, maybe that's what I have. Find out more information about it, then what can I actually do about it?

Coach Carly: 39:24

Yeah, I think I think some people are really, really resilient and will come across as having a real Gallo sense of humor, you know, and everything's kind of, they've got really good sense of humor, but it's all really dark and everything that they watch is all quite dark, and sometimes that is also representative of, they've gone through stuff and and they're kind of holding on to it and they can't, they're not necessarily focusing on the good stuff that happens in life. So some of the things that you might notice is that people are just jam Really speaking really cynically really negatively, you know, their first response to everything is just a negative one. And people kind of find it a bit difficult to be around them because they're a bit angry, irritable, you know, they're just not really that fun to hang out with. So if you find yourself really snappy and irritable, and if it's just easy to just reach for a bottle of wine or a beer, or, you know, you're kind of finding that you would rather do certain activities that, that keep you busy, or take your mind off stuff, because you can't relax, you know. So I think not being able to relax is a big one, not being able to spend time on your own is a big one. Because, you know, people get kind of almost like itchy, you know, they they sit there and they're like, Oh, I've, I need to do something. It's almost like an avoidance tactic. So, if you, if any, if you take any of those boxes, I suppose it's about really sitting there reflecting with yourself. Do I find it difficult to be alone? You know, do I do I need to just always be filling my time with stuff? Do I drink a bit more than I should? Do or not sleep as well as I want to, you know, are my relationships in my life going as well as I want them to? Or do people find me difficult to be around? You know, and then I suppose the kind of things that you can do about it? Oh, I suppose lots of self reflective type of exercises, and really, really spending time with yourself and kind of going inward and going, Why do I find this so uncomfortable? What is it about me just hanging out? And thinking about my own stuff? That what is it about that that I find so uncomfortable? What is it what is coming up for me in those moments that I maybe can't cope with or can't deal with, and then finding a trusted friend that you can kind of just start talking to about that stuff, write stuff down, get it out of your head? Do it I call it a brain dump, you know, just jot stuff down on paper, it doesn't have to make any sense, you know, and you don't have to start with dear diary or anything, you know, just just get stuff out of your head onto paper chat to someone go and see a professional if you if you feel like you want to or can. But just reach out I think is a really important first step, you don't have to know why exactly you're reaching out or what for or what it is that you're aiming for. Just start by reaching out to someone and just talk it through from there.

Joel Kleber: 42:14

That's some great advice. Now what's considered someone identifies that reaches out but what what sort of professionally they're available for someone to sort of going sort of if they want to deal with this is with a psychologist, a coach, or what what would you recommend for someone actually, if they want to really deal with it and get to the bottom of it?

Coach Carly: 42:31

Yeah, I think it can be both or one or the other, it kind of depends on the situation, I think I get a lot of people coming to me for coaching, who, you know, if I notice that they have some pretty significant trauma stuff coming up, I will always recommend that they're also linked in with a psychologist. I think there is a huge benefit to psychology, when it's combined with coaching, especially because I think site counseling, you know, you spend a lot of time talking about the problem kind of over and over again. And yeah, there are tools as well that they talk about, which are kind of helpful in moving you forward. But coaching is very much solution focused therapy. So if you're doing those two things alongside each other, you're dealing with the trauma, and you're also moving forward, if you can find a coach that is informed in trauma, then it might kind of you can you can kill two birds with one stone, I suppose. But But I think that slight counseling, you know, psychologists can provide a bunch of different kind of counseling techniques that coaches don't generally do. So like the EMDR processing, and I do work with EMDR and EFT in my coaching sessions, but I would, I would say, going to a registered psychologist to do those kinds of things. For someone that's really, really knee deep in trauma would be really, really important to do.

Joel Kleber: 43:48

Okay, and you're going to be more do you have touched on a little bit what those two? I know people can look it up on YouTube, but how does it actually work in regards to the science around

Coach Carly: 43:58

it? So EMDR Eye Movement Desensitization reprocessing is, it's like a bilateral, they call it bilateral stimulation. So there's a number of different ways that you can do it. For anyone that might have heard about EMDR before, you might see like a psychologist kind of moving their, their finger and you're supposed to kind of follow with your eyes and track it. While you're kind of talking about the trauma. You can also be tapping on the opposite side of the body. And do that in a number of different ways. And your laser kind of doesn't really matter. It's about stimulating the opposite side of the body to the opposite side of the brain, if that makes sense. So what it does is actually kind of unstick the stuck part of the brain that's stuck in that trauma loop to actually process it. Because those memories associated with the trauma haven't actually been processed to be able to deal with them. You know, a lot of people will go through traumatic stuff and not deal with it in the moment and then just wait for years and years and years to deal with it. And if that's stuck in the brain, then it needs to kind of be resolved in some Right. And then EFT or emotional freedom technique is also known as tapping, you tap on various places on the mainly on the face. So there's like different acupressure points that you would tap. While you're talking out like loud ideally, you can also be saying it in your head about things that you believe to be true. So if you search on YouTube for EFT, and maybe put a keyword in like EFT trauma or EFT, PTSD, EFT anxiety, there's loads of stuff about anxiety, all you need to do is copy what the EFT practitioner is saying and where they're tapping. So you literally just copy where they're tapping, you vocalize what they're saying. And by doing that part of it is like a break state in that it, it kind of moves you away from the negative emotion that you're experiencing at the time, and actually helps you to neutralize it. And then part of it is, is just yeah, that kind of processing, I suppose out of the brain. So you can use EFT to move away from from feelings that you don't want, and also to move towards feelings that you do want. Whereas EMDR is much more focused on just relieving the trauma aspects side of things.

Joel Kleber: 46:06

Now, what's sort of a very, very general question, I guess, but what sort of, because I think a lot of people's issues from unresolved trauma, and obviously you work in this area, so you would know that firsthand. But what sort of progress can someone make when they go right, I take, I've got some issues here. Most be the bride take the bracelet and booking with a psychologist or coach, what sort of progress and everyone's different, but what sort of progress have you seen, from working with people in regards to them addressing their issues

Coach Carly: 46:35

in the person and how committed they are to their own recovery, you know, but people can make massive, massive shifts and become more of them themselves, their authentic selves, I suppose, because what trauma does is it, it takes you with a layer of crap on top of who you really are, and you don't even really know who you really are, because you've just lost somewhere in there, you know, so as you unwind, and it's like being caked in layers of dust as you just start dusting stuff off. And kind of lightening the load, I suppose you feel a lot lighter, you feel happier, just kind of you start making progress towards feeling lighter, freer, you sleep better, you want to do better things for your body, you want to exercise more, eat better food, those kinds of things, your relationships start improving. So so people can make massive progress and have you know, recovery to the point where you can talk about your trauma and not relive it. You know, so talk about your trauma and not not feel the negative emotion. So you can have, you can have the memory still of what happens. But, you know, with things like EMDR, you detach the memory from the emotion of it. So you know, it would still be normal to feel sad or disappointed, or whatever it might be when you're talking about significant trauma, but you can tell your story and not feel really affected by it, you know, like I share my story, and I don't feel affected by it anymore. Just know that I can help people by sharing my story. So people can make massive, massive changes in their lives. And really everything in their life can be different as a result of that you do with you know, with some people, the difficulty is the initial bits, you know, the initial stages. So if you've never actually shared any of your trauma before, the hardest bit is starting. Because once you start unlocking that Pandora's Box, basically, if you take the lid off Pandora's box, there's all that stuff there and it starts coming up. And it doesn't feel good when it first starts, it starts coming up. And so sometimes people will, you know, they'll go for Psych sessions, or whatever, and their trauma will come up, and they'll walk away, and they'll just feel rubbish. And they might feel rubbish for quite a few sessions. And sometimes people just stop, because they don't want to relive it, they don't want to experience it. That happens to quite a few people, you know, sometimes people just aren't ready. And you just have to kind of, I suppose, tackle it with wherever someone is at so he can use kind of, I suppose softer tools and techniques, like in some of the tools that we're using coaching, I sometimes will suggest to people to not not deal in the initial stages with the the big hairy monster that's lurking in the background, you know, that whatever is the biggest thing that they've been avoiding talking about, we don't necessarily start with that, you know, we start with what I call the low hanging fruit, you know, an argument they had a friend with with a friend last week or something they did last year that they feel really guilty about, you know, just stuff that isn't the really big stuff. And once you start clearing away some of that other stuff and they start feeling better as a result of that. People become a lot more willing to go and you know, hunt down that big hairy monster over there.

Joel Kleber: 49:49

Are you surprised about the lack of awareness in general regarding trauma and PTSD when it comes to mental health awareness or just the people in general because I think I just I just think it's so a no brainer that like if you could this gets pushed more for people to seek help with trauma with psychologists. And coaches, I think it can really, really help because I think it's a, it's a big issue. And as most people, I think, in some regard, I've had some sort of unresolved trauma in their life, which still affects them to this day.

Coach Carly: 50:17

Definitely, I think because of this kind of space that I work in, I don't see I don't I don't, the perspective that I have is not what the general population would have. Because I see trauma and people dealing with trauma all the time and all the different agencies that I'm surrounded by. So I don't necessarily know what it's like for Joe Bloggs to have have a fresh kind of view of not even knowing about trauma, I suppose. So I suppose that's a difficult question for me to answer.

Joel Kleber: 50:44

Let's say from an outsider like for like, there's no like if I said to someone name an organization or charity that is just deals with PTSD and trauma, no one could name one, I would think as a general sense, right? Yeah, seems to be like, well, it's supposed to be lumped under, let's say the mental health banner, which generally will fall under, most times beyond blue, or whatever the organization is, right. So it seems to be something that's really lost. But it's probably the most prevalent thing, even in front of depression, anxiety, I would say, in regards to the prevalence of it in the community, but it's not something the general public would really think about, or Yeah, I was, I would say,

Coach Carly: 51:19

I think now you mentioned it, like, when you say things like PTSD, people automatically think about war veterans, and, and just think that those are the only people that experience shellshock. You know, what you're what it used to be called. So I think yeah, there is that, as with any kind of mental health topic, everything needs more exposure, doesn't it? You know, and what will be the next thing schizophrenia? Probably, you know, like, no one really talks about that enough. But yeah, I think, I think trauma is everywhere. And it's not obvious to people necessarily, unless, unless it's really, really obvious, or unless someone has been in the war, or whatever it might be. So I think the more we can get it out there as a not as a normal thing, but I think, you know, as as a normal reaction to abnormal situations. And the more that people can talk about it, and talk, talk openly on podcast, and stuff like that, you know, the better, the better it will be, because I think people listening to stuff like this will will have those aha moments ago, oh, maybe that's what's wrong with my friend or my loved one. Or, well, maybe I have some stuff that I need to maybe look at from my past. You know, maybe I am avoiding stuff. Maybe this is why I feel not very good about my life, and maybe a bit irritable and cranky every day. You know, so yeah, the more people talk about stuff, the better. And then those people also share their own experiences with the people that are in their lives to

Joel Kleber: 52:48

it, because I'm thinking the more people be a bit older, you and I, because there's a lot of people in my, my mom and my mom, it was one of 10 and one of Livingstone, I had a dad with bipolar. And they had a, you know, a lot of issues and stuff on the farm. It's never been really spoken about that much. And I know that her brothers and sisters, I don't know if they have, but I would say a lot of them wouldn't have had any help or like any talk to anyone about it, even though they've experienced a lot of trauma, I would say from that. So I think the older generation in particular, could definitely benefit from it, even though it's later on, but it just seems to be I just think as an issue, this is more prevalent than depression and anxiety on the surface for it. But it's something that is just new, as you said, it's only really associated with them. With veterans or veterans into it.

Coach Carly: 53:33

Yeah. And that generation, you know, from, from our parents kind of up, just didn't talk about stuff, they just got on with stuff. It's pretty rare and foreign as a concept. Because, you know, I suppose our generation is the first kind of generation where we could actually look past survival mode, you know, we don't have to deal with rationing our food and being in wars and stuff from it's not as obvious to us, you know, obviously, it's always occurring in the rest of the world. But it's not, it's not obvious to us like it was to them. And we've got things like social media, where we were much more connected than they were, in some ways and in other ways. We've never been more disconnected, right, because of social media and stuff like that. But we have the ability to reach out and talk and people are talking a lot. So I think there's a lot of benefits to that as well. There is there's a guy who called Dr. Gabor Marty, have you heard of him? Yeah, it's

Joel Kleber: 54:26

great Sunday. I'm Joe Rogan. He

Coach Carly: 54:28

Yeah, he is just if you know, he is an expert in the trauma space. And he if you if you want to look him up on YouTube, he's just got some incredible stuff out there. He really knows his stuff and just listening to him is so eye opening, you know, so I think that that's something that people could do. If they're kind of listening to this or watching this and, and wondering where to start. Go and check out Dr Gabor Marty. Then just start listening to his stuff, you know,

Joel Kleber: 55:00

He's got some great audio books. I just downloaded the most recent one. I haven't listened to it yet. But yeah, you're right when I heard him I think he was this guy. It's a space like it. It's it makes so much sense. But it is something you never really you've heard much before. It's quite it's quite amazing the studies and stuff that he refers to when it's goes in the face of what's happening right at the moment, doesn't it?

Coach Carly: 55:20

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he's he's definitely an inspiration. And he, he's done a lot of work in the addiction studies, and works a lot with things like he talks a lot about things like plant medicine, and the alternative therapies and stuff like that. So yeah, really incredible person

Joel Kleber: 55:37

know, what your perspective on the diction? Because you obviously you're you're working in in the criminal, you work with them? Yeah,

Coach Carly: 55:43

I work in the Justice Justice system.

Joel Kleber: 55:45

So So you obviously see people who are affected by addiction. And then the common the common person, you know, the average Joe would go, you know, well, he's just a drug addict, or he's just this and that, but what they, they need to have a you'd obviously not because you work with these people, but they're not just out of the blue become someone who's got substance abuse problems, there's some sort of significant trauma or some sort of undiagnosed mental illness or something that goes to it. And I'm going to talk a bit about more the empathy that you've got from your side in regards to working with people in these situations.

Coach Carly: 56:15

Yeah, I think I've always had that ability to not just write people off in that way. Like I hear a lot. I've heard a lot from people, what do you want to work with junkies and criminals for? And that really pisses me off? Sorry, I can't swear I really, that really gets to me, you know, because I my answer always is that could be us in any right or wrong set of circumstances. We could be there too, you know, and you saw that with Coronavirus, as well, when people are losing their jobs, losing their houses ending up living in a tent. You know, like, sometimes it's a miracle that people aren't on drugs when they've gone through kind of traumas and stuff. And there was a, there was a really good quote by Russell Brand, where I ended up writing a blog on it called Chalmers gateway, because he's got this kind of Spiel where he says, you know, cannabis isn't the gateway. These certain things aren't a gateway trauma is the gateway to everything. I don't know, there's not many people that I work with in that space who haven't had, a lot of them have had childhood trauma, you know, childhood abuse, sexual abuse a lot of the time and, and have grown up in the kind of environments where you just think, of course, they ended up on drugs. Like, you'd want to feel some kind of level of happy, or numbness right and met is such a massive problem over here. It it's not a drug that I ever came across back in London. For us back home, it was cocaine and heroin. Those were the problem drugs, you know, kind of for them recreational drugs were very different. But over here, I was pretty surprised when I came over here. And, and, and people use meth recreationally. And, and it's a really, really bad kind of in the same bracket as heroin and crack cocaine. And people, the people that I work with who who use meth non stop is it's always because they are hiding from their trauma. And you know, it's no surprise because it completely numbs them out, you know, and it messes with the frontal lobes of their brain, and they don't feel any empathy either. So you can see why people end up there for sure. So, I think you have to, rather than say, What's wrong with you say, what has happened to you to make you act the way that you're acting and do the things that you're doing right now? And how can I help you with that? If they're ready to be helped, I suppose

Joel Kleber: 58:42

it's a great, it's a great point, obviously, your professional works. And so that's the first way you point you'd go to someone's got like a substance abuse problem. That's the first question you should ask is what has happened to you not like why do you do that? Or, you know, you're hurting other people that it should be? What has happened to you and you step them back? And then you find out and then there's a way you go and you deal with the trauma from then you don't even worry about the substance side of it. You just deal with that? And then hopefully everything sort of, then you move on towards it, or how does it work? from a process point of view?

Coach Carly: 59:08

It really depends, I think, I think, I think things like rehab are a really good option, because, you know, they're in a residential rehab space for three to six months. You know, they kind of go into detox first because some, a lot of the people that I work with, are using drugs every single day, you know, and lots of them. You can't work with you can't prove it help people process their trauma when they're completely smashed all day long. You know, you just can't even find the trauma. So, so for people who are are really addicted, I would say detox, residential rehab, and then in that residential rehab space, if it's a decent one, not all of them are, you know, they've got group counseling sessions. They've got individual counseling sessions. They've got medical doctors who are checking their phones. health of their physical body and finding out if they've got things like servos to deliver or you know, heart problems or whatever, and also helping them deal with that stuff. So it's a very contained environment, they're not necessarily exposed to the outside world, a lot of them don't, they can't access their phone, they can't call their loved ones until different stages in the program. So some people need that kind of level of support. And some people go in and out of rehab for for lots of different times and keep relapsing when they come back out into the community. So for a lot of people, they need to be removed from their environment. And that's not that's, it's easier said than done a lot of the time, sometimes people will go into prison, go into rehab, come back out to the exact same situation that caused all the trauma in the first place.

Joel Kleber: 1:00:45

And I was gonna ask you as well, from your professional perspective, what can or what should young people do who live in a highly stressed environment? You know, they say they have a parent with a mental illness or parents with mental health conditions or substance abuse conditions? What can young people do, from your perspective to not, let's say, go off the golf the tracks, or go go in a gonna think go in a way where they, they succumb to their trauma, and they might use substances or something like what's some practical stuff, awesome advice you can provide for them.

Coach Carly: 1:01:16

I think when you're a young child, speaking to a trusted teacher, at school would be really important. A lot of teachers, a lot of schools will have, you know, peer support or school counselor and linking in with those people I think, is really important. I think a lot of people are scared that child protection will just rock up and take them away from home, you know, so, but the reality is quite different a lot of the time and you know, when when you lean in to the right people, and you kind of speak about what's going on. No service ultimately wants to take split up families, you know, the the ideal situation is to get in there and figure out what does this family need? What kind of support do they need to be able to move forward together as a family unit? So I think for children to speak out, not necessarily always to their mates, it depends what age they are, you know, depends what their mates, whether their mates are any good for them. So I think you're leaning on that kind of support at school. With, you know, with the pandemic over the last couple of years, there's now lots of online services, I think that are really, really useful as well. So things like better help you hear lots of adverts for lots of like, 24/7, free support lines that that you can call things like lifeline. And, yeah, just kind of leaning into those supports in Western Australia, we've got a place called Headspace. I'm not sure if it's in other parts of Australia. But headspace is really, really great service for 12 to 21 year olds, I think, maybe a little bit older. And so headspace, they're actually really cool offices to go and check out because they are they're designed by teenagers and kids, you know, so they're really colorful, they're funky colors, they've got iPads, that they check in and do a mental health assessment when they come in pool tables, you know, places that kids want to hang out. And like when we talk about places like great and nobody wants to hang out there. But headspace are cool places for kids to hang out in. It's almost like a youth club slash mental health service. So linking in with with places like headspace is important, and teachers and school counselors and stuff will be able to do those referrals.

Joel Kleber: 1:03:37

That's the end now with your coaching business. Kelly, before I let you go, we're gonna just talk about your website and where people can find you and reach out.

Coach Carly: 1:03:46

Yep, so my website is Coach carly.com. I'm on Facebook as coach Carly, that's my coaching page. And then I've got Phoenix transformation, which is my energy page. And you can pretty much find everything on there. So I do one on one coaching, I do one on one, energy treatments, whether it's in person or remotely coaching is kind of global. So a lot of it is done on video call or in person if you're in the Perth area. And I've got online group coaching as well. So there's loads of stuff if you go on my website, there's loads and loads of blogs and videos and everything is in the kind of realm of from surviving to thriving and pretty much it's a bunch of tools that over the years because I've had to I've used on myself that have helped push me through those really crappy times, you know, so, yeah, it's even just reading blogs. There's lots of free stuff that I share on there. So just have a bit of a gander and see if stuff will help.

Joel Kleber: 1:04:39

I had a look at your website before he has a lot of good material on their websites, on your website for people to go and listen to and then you do a lot of podcast interviews yourself as well. So there's a lot of good stuff people that can find out more about your listening. They found it really helpful. I found it really helpful just listening to To be honest, it's been really good. So it's been fantastic information you've shared and I really appreciate your time and for you to be proactive and reach out and then come on, which is really good. Just just great to hear from your perspective, you know, someone who's lived with someone with bipolar from a partner perspective, I know how tough it can be. So it's good to hear from your perspective. What's actually involved in that. And I'm sure people listening will nod their head because it's just so much consistencies and stuff that they would recognize that we all sort of go through and can understand. That's just, that's what happens when when you have bipolar disorder. That's what that's what's involved with it.

Coach Carly: 1:05:29

Thanks so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Carlita.