So Tim, thank you for coming on the lived experience and you you're returning guests to my first returned guest. And I thought of you because those go through mental health month, which is a whole month in Australia in October where, and it's about mental health and mental health awareness. And I'm sort of thinking, Well, you know, people with bipolar and stuff like that, I've never really heard anything about that, during this month that sort of prompted me well, let's get let's get him back on again, let's get some great insights like we did last time into, into what it's like living with bipolar having that condition and, and being successful running your business as well. And your thoughts on the whole mental health awareness movement, where it needs to go, and all that sort of stuff. So first of all, how are you man?

Yeah, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Thank you. I think this is been an exciting one. For me. We were speaking in our chats, I haven't had a lengthy period of depression. I've had sort of bits and spurts but it's it's been an interesting year with my mental health. And yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me back on, it's always good to look back through these interviews. My uncle even mentioned once he he said that I should listen to your interviews that you've done of me if I'm ever going into a into a depressive period, because almost like myself giving myself so no, thank you. I appreciate you giving me the give me the time to come on.

Yeah, I was watching it back again. I was sort of like some nuggets of golden you're gonna get Tim back on again, for some more thoughts to go daily. Because, you know, I consume a lot of mental illness mental health content, and it's generally the same thing about depression with with the with a person, right, so a person's got, let's say, not clinical depression, but let's say the more that's a popularised depression, if I could use that word, and that's really it. I never hear much about bipolar schizophrenia in the frustrating for me by the October mental health month was I didn't hear terms like bipolar schizophrenia, or BPD, anorexia, Raven, I didn't hear these things mentioned once. And it was very, very frustrating to me, because in regards to how serious those conditions are, and that can be on family members, and also stuff in the person as well. It's very under under represented in the whole movement.

Yeah, definitely. Actually, the, I don't know if it's maybe due to my lack of awareness or seeking out, I didn't know that it was mental health month until I saw your posts. So thank you for bringing the awareness to it. Now, again, that might just been me with my busy schedule. But yeah, that that might be just an interesting thing to start off with. Was it? Was there enough communication around that month? Apologies to the person who was who was spearheading it, but But personally, I didn't. I didn't see much apart from apart from yourself.

Yeah, well, I see a lot of it What have I spent a lot of time alone in my job. And I see a lot of those posts, which is cool. But I'm on a barbecue and about this is a beyondblue. Ambassador. And he's basically saying the same thing, you know, the time for awareness is over, what is actually happening? What are the outcomes, what's being put in place? Now, because it's almost like there's enough of awareness moving, what's the actual things that are making impacts in people's lives. So there anything in the last year that you know, firsthand, that is out there in regards to making a significant impact?

I think the biggest thing for me actually has been finding a support group. Specifically, it's a bipolar support group. Bipolar life is the name a friend of mine said that, you know, Joey, come in, and that for me was was really fantastic. Because you've got brilliant resources like beyond blue and black dog and the bigger institutions, doing really good activations, really good information. But I found that something this year was was really good finding like minded people. And it was great to even be able to talk about your show. You know, it is it's lived experience. And I'd go to a few meetings that hopefully you got a few listeners from, from that. But that was something that that I think has been massive for me and even recommending that to friends that I know who they've just been diagnosed to. I think that as a as an example. And the platform was really cool, because I couldn't I didn't find anything. When I first got diagnosed of all it's really cool to go and talk to people with this with a similar lived experience. So that that was something that I've, I've found interesting this year, that I've personally found.

Yeah, and I think it's a unique thing with bipolar because I know my mom would not have gone to a group nothing wrong with that nothing wrong with her she would definitely not have gone to a group and I know some relationship definitely would have gone to a group. So it takes a lot of insight actually self actualization to go to a group if you've got a bipolar I feel as though because I know I'd say from my personal experience that I'm definitely would not have done that.

Hmm, yeah, definitely took the took the self awareness and I was I was, you know, in a period where I was feeling great at the time, I was very baseline. So If there was no real resistance to going there, would there be resistance? If I was maybe in a depressed or manic state, possibly. But I think just the awareness that there was that group there or things similar to that, I just find that exciting that if you're if you're in a baseline period, because I sat down in the first meeting, and I was like, Well, do I have to be here? Because I was, I was feeling good. So I had those similar reactions to, you'd say your mom would have, but then it clicked on me. And I said, Well, hang on, if I'm here when I'm healthy. And these people notice, okay, well, these are not typical behaviours, they notice that I drop off, they might reach out, and that's where it can be actually really supportive. So especially something with bipolar where your mood can change so drastically and dramatically. It's, it's good to have people that also understand from from that loop experience standpoint,

I think there's just a certain level of understanding, you don't need to really say much to each other. You both know, what's involved with it, you know, there's now electron Yeah, you both come from a position where you know exactly what's happening to you. And that's really important. So I'm going to say to you, though, with the with, I was looking at a report the other day, which was from bipolar stripe, from the 2018 19 submission to Victorian mental health, Royal Commission, and it basically estimated that the cost of bipolar to the economy was around $8.1 billion a year. Yet, we've got all this aside, I think it's around a billion dollars of funding for mental health in Victoria alone. But when you look at the whole discipline condition by itself, now the amount of money it costs the economy, do you think that we're doing enough? Or that you know, what more can be done? Now to address this issue?

Yeah, I think what we've done for depression and anxiety has been fantastic. I think the the communication around that has been great. But as we've talked about a couple of times, and you've probably said a number of times, on posts, and in this podcast as well, that the that same level of communication around schizophrenia, bipolar, you know, every any other disorder just isn't, isn't there. And, you know, sometimes to the point, explaining the difference between bipolar and depression, or bipolar depression or normal depression, you know, it would be fantastic to just say, Hey, I have bipolar, and then there'd be that surface level understanding that would be great. So, yeah, but I know, it's been it's been a massive effort for that conversation around depression and anxiety to get to where it is. So, you know, is it the same effort required for for every other mental illness? I believe they should be. But But that, and that's a very interesting conversation. I'd be keen to know what, you know, what you you've seen in that space as well. You know, with with, I guess, what am I trying to say? Yeah, I guess I'm trying to repeat the question back to you.

Well, I think, Well, I think, um, well, for me, it's like, the suicide rates by Parthenos. Like, in that report, just referring to this report is like 1600 people, I think in the year, you had bipolar, committed suicide, there's a lot more tempted things and all that sort of stuff, right? So when they do the stats around one in six men or whatever, commit suicide? Well, it's like one in six men, I'd love to see with the conditions or something listed, because there'd be a disproportionate amount of people who had bipolar and schizophrenia, who unfortunately take their own lives as to, let's say, the generic depression, which we're all aware of. So there's a massive disproportionate amount of people, unfortunately, committing suicide with those serious mental illnesses as opposed to the generalised depression, which receives all the awareness. But as a model segment,

yeah. And it's actually it's really interesting friend of mine who studied psychology has gone on to do his master's and probably an honours or PhD soon. One of the first things he said to me was, he was very concerned. And yes, he was very green and young into his studies, but he knew that people with bipolar do have higher suicide rates, and, you know, the likelihood because your mood swings so much, that does tend to happen. And it was something that he was very concerned about when when I was first diagnosed. So now he was he was trained, and he was able to, you know, talk to me about that. And that was, that was an interesting period. But yeah, it would be great if those figures were more readily available, for sure.

Yeah, well, the reason why I was exposed is because I'm going up mum would always make friends inside the sideboard and you know, when they both got out, they catch up or whatever, and you know, probably remember four of them or five haven't committed suicide. And you have to go to these funerals as a kid, like, you know, you met that person probably two or three weeks ago, you met him in the site in the psych ward. So that was just the reality of it. That's how I knew it as that's the fear that was always living with me with someone who had that condition. And

the thing that's, that's really terrible is, especially with bipolar, well, for my specific example, if you're in a depressed state, but you start to do all the things that's right for you, I get the proper medication, reach out to those conversations that are really, you know, holding over you, you can get better. So, at a rapid pace, you can get better really quickly, that swing back up, at least for me, has been incredibly quick. So the disappointing thing about that is, if it is a bipolar suicide, from from my perspective, at least, it's it's a shame, because it might have been the difference between one day or two days, or even even a week, that would have changed that person's decision from, you know, committing suicide, then to actually getting better. Again, something for me to listen to, again, is it's very interesting. And that's kind of the the benefit of bipolar in a way that the recovery time is, is quick, once you start to get the right things, right. Especially for my case, you know, and that's something that I actually see as a benefit and quite, quite positive to to these illnesses. If it was just depression, then maybe it would be harder to climb back to a baseline. But I've found that as soon as I've got medication, right, and as soon as I've reached out to the right people fix the things or the problems that I think are facing me, I've been able to very quickly get get better again,

can you give an example of maybe that, what you've what you've done to, to do that,

I think I can give an example of literally the last three, three months. So as of probably two or three weeks ago, my phone was turned off I I've been retreating a little bit. And some warning signs have came in and like I was probably just not in a great speaking mood and, and triggers and warnings of bipolar depression, we're coming about for the last few weeks, not getting out of bed not doing all the things and one of those situations was actually a just work with, with a client, that consistent client of mine, I dropped the ball on on a few things. And I've a situation happened where filming the focus point wasn't wasn't quite right. So I had to go out and refilm this, this situation. So there are a couple of things that added on top of it is just normal stresses. But then what happened was, instead of ignoring all of these situations, I went to the client and just said, Hey, you know, this is where we're at. And I know I've I've dropped the ball here and I just opened up a line of communication. Instead of you know, there was probably five or so messages sitting there from them. And you know, like, where are you? So I kind of confronted that situation where it is in the past probably wouldn't have done that. And then that would have just kept going and and spiralled me into into something. But the thing is, is it already it already was it was it was spiralling me because I wasn't facing that situation. And I know it sounds like a pretty surface level thing. But you have that then add on another thing and another thing and another thing and your ability to deal with stress just to me i tipples over. But instead I went the other way I've kind of faced it to have the conversation that I needed to have. And you know, now now I'm feeling better, feeling good enough to do to do this interview, whereas probably two or three weeks ago, I might have I might have missed Mr. message because my phone my phone would have been off. So sure. So if that was if I was rambling, but that was probably a specific example.

So how do you go managing you run a small business which can be stressful as nuts for anyone? So how do you manage your mental health part of running a business because you mentioned the keyword there stress? And I know from my lived experience with my mom, every time she started a part time job within two weeks you'd be stressed in a hospital manic so she couldn't never work always on a disability pension even though she wanted to work and she tried to work. It just wasn't good for so how do you manage the stress component especially with bipolar?

Yeah, so when I'm doing it well, I'm walking every day. It's like I think the interesting thing with COVID and being told that you can have your our walk more people are going out and doing doing their walk but it's a Amazing how beneficial that that is so so overlooking the exercise component can be very dangerous. And that's so that's super basic

as in general life. I think for people with mental health, it's just everything. Yeah,

that's a general one. The other things that helps as well is yeah, I really need to keep up communication with people. So for me, that's the the biggest thing as soon as I start letting a few messages slip by, I don't get back to people. You know, there has to be a little bit of leeway there. But but for me, it's at least keeping in communication with a core group of people, even my dad, my family, so So that's a that's a big thing. And then, you know, it's interesting, your diet as well. You know, when I'm in a low mood, it's very easy to drive to McDonald's.

You know, leaner.

Oh, exactly. But I think the biggest thing really is is the exercise and the biggest and then also continuing being productive and communication as well. As soon as I stop working, even, you know, I let one project slip and another project slip, that's when things start to start to escalate. So even if it's a matter of, I don't feel like doing something today, figure out like 10% or 20% of the thing that you can that you can do. And sometimes it's also the schedule on asleep that the good thing about being self employed from a mental health perspective is you know, the boss is always gonna say yes to a sick day you know, which is a it's a good and bad thing, but also in a sense of, I can have my own schedule so if I'd need to, you know, stay a little bit longer in bed till 10 or 11 I'll do that but it also will mean I'll work until seven or eight or nine or even last night I was up until two but then today I was able to kind of take it a little bit easy so the self employed schedule actually works really well for me so that could be another thing is having a schedule that works for you so that's good or works for me but what's what's your thoughts the one that works for works for someone else? So I guess to summarise those those all those things that will be the exercise keeping busy doing work and then having a schedule that that works for you.

That's some great points then that's just for anyone in general I think the exercise the on demand shakes now back to the man shakes trying to also wait and doing some exercise regularly and yeah, you just got to you just got to get it out and stick through it that you feel a lot better for Nia stick with it as well because if you don't do the two days or whatever you feel a bit of a failure and then you can get a bit bit of a hole and you know I think that's just in in general life no problem at all. I was gonna say you as well with um with bipolar as well from recorded recanting a story the other day, where I've had experiences with with my mum was who was manic and in the way together, you couldn't get him help when you knew though unwell. So for example, you're in your group right? Let's say for example, you knew someone was gardening that you knew they were going to be involuntary let's say in two weeks or whatever, but there's nothing you can really do before that so do you have any thoughts around the actual getting the mental health support when you actually need it, or are just about to go over the edge?

Yeah, um, this is the thing where it's you can really lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, I've had so many situations where I should have made an appointment with with my doctor and if I did that it would have saved three months of being in a being in the press state. But in terms of practically getting someone support this is where it's important to have that close group of people that know your diagnosis and know your little triggers and also behaviour sets that happen so I'm in a really fortunate position now that if I stopped posting on social media or if I maybe made some phone calls and don't respond in a couple of weeks I've got a few people that message me and go what's what's going on. And that is a symptom and how that's kind of bad is every time I got better again I would tell specific people this is what happens if I'm if I'm not in a good state and it's interesting like I got a message from someone today who same thing that like I haven't seen you post anything what's going on. So that would be the biggest thing to get the help when you need it is actually build that support network when you're healthy, because then it's going to be the people that you tell they're going to notice when you need the support the most So that's it. However you do that, however you feel comfortable doing that. That's probably my advice on that. Does that. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I'm sorry. I also get that you've been in you've been hospitalised before. So yeah. Very, very brief. Very briefly. Yeah, very briefly a short time. So if I was at a process where you were, were you voluntary in that situation, when volunteer what happened?

No, that was, um, that was when I was first diagnosed. So a lot of the time with with bipolar, you get diagnosed with depression first. In my case, I was then given antidepressants to go on. And that then, you know, put me into a manic state and then the diagnosis. So as a, it was a cause of having that real be a big boost from the from the antidepressant and didn't go too well. And that was, that was why I was hospitalised. The good thing, and I guess we're unfortunate is I was got to the stage with the depressive period that I was in where I was, I was still with my parents at the stage. I was, you know, early 20s. And had support around me that when things went the other way, people like, oh, hang on, this isn't this isn't normal. And I think it was even. It was a really, because I went in to the psych appointment with the psychologist at my JPS. And I was really excited because for the majority of the time with this doctor, I just been quiet. And like I hadn't I didn't talk it was it was really hard to get anything out of me. And I was just really excited to now be able to talk to this person. And then obviously, he was like, Oh, hang on, this isn't this isn't right. And then it was an upstairs one and and then we went downstairs my JP was like, this isn't right, and basically went straight, straight to hospital off the back of that. So again, you could say that was quite fortunate to that I was actually in the best place possible. That when when I had a manic my first manic episode was actually from Well, from my memory and least was in the in the doctor's office. Obviously, I was displaying symptoms all the way all the way there. But um, yeah, that was that was really fascinating. So for me, it was just, it was just a matter of, okay, like people around me the 40 figures in my life just telling me like, Yep, this is, this is where you need to go.

Do you think that because I know, for my experience, ambulance, and police are the first people who always deal with, let's say, some neighbours call the cops on, you know, my mom, or whatever they do, would always be the police and then the ambulance. And like for me, and I'm like, I'm thinking at this stage now with all this money that we wasted on roads not getting made or whatever. Like it's almost like at the stage where I think there needs to be dedicated Mental Health First Responder for some cars or something like mental health first responders, because the ambulance people or paramedics and police are overworked, as it is some sort of MIT dedicated mental health force or, you know, amp, like I say, offshoot of the ambulance, that are the first responders to deal with mental health conditions. Because I just from knowing from my from my partner who works in an ad now it's like, it's just astounding the amount of mental health presentations, people who have got schizophrenia, bipolar, who would have a long history, they have to go there first, then be committed and get the help they actually need. I think there's a really big disconnect with saying, you know, we're gonna put all this resources in a mental health, but I don't think we we don't have even a dedicated, let's say, mental health support emergency service. We're still using paramedics to do that. What are your thoughts on that whole thing?

Yeah, especially cuz paramedics trained in so many areas, like they got to respond to a lot of things. So obviously, they're going to have a good level of, of knowledge of what's going on. But I think there might be specific examples where the person could be violent could be acting out. And they're doing that because of the condition that they're in. So if there's a mental health person there that can understand and communicate and bridge that gap. I think that's that's a great idea. I think there's there's definitely situations where that would, where that would come in handy and get someone they help they need a lot quicker. Rather than I don't know, maybe it hasn't, it hasn't happened to me, but how many people would have been in a manic state and now they're in jail instead of in hospital? Overnight, for example. So that would be that would be an interesting perspective. Have you sort of heard stories on that yourself like,

oh, yeah, no. Yeah, I know firsthand. The thing is, I'm trying to remember having a did a video just on a story about extensive mental health history. Manic you know, I went to drive her to the psych ward, which has been in multiple times. You know, late at night Christmas Eve and went to driver there are they're not close you have to go you have to make you have to call the ambulance. I couldn't even tell you the emergency ward I have to call the ambulance to follow procedure. Then I had to do a mental health assessment. So we're waiting there for like six hours, and they're asking all these questions, do you have a mental health condition? Like, come on, you've got the extensive history, then I'm getting real frustrated. But my point I'm trying to make is that, you know, mental health is such a well known thing yet, we don't seem to have an emergency system or support system in place for when people really need their help. There's nothing really dedicated from what I know.

Yeah. So So you were your mom, you're trying to get your mom help, and you drove her directly to where you knew she needed to be? Yes, but then you needed to turn around and go somewhere else,

I had to basically we had to call an ambulance and then tagged to the emergency board, you then have to do a mental health assessment, and then they will decide whether to make an involuntary or not. And this is someone in a very elevated manic state, you know, I state eyes going like back and forth. So this is only, you know, probably, probably five years ago. That's what it's asking. So this is essentially the experience in your perspective with with the when you needed to actually get help. Most advices like all that sort of stuff.

Well, I think to use that example, I think this is where it's actually could be an interesting thing to say, have someone as that registered support network, because you You are the best person in that situation to look after your mum. Unless you can't, you know, physically control what's what's going on. You knew you knew exactly what she needed to be there would have been medical history of what's going on. And there should have almost been more authority on your behalf there, I think. Yeah. You know, yeah, that's, that's sort of my answer to that. And then I think that could open up the wider conversation of, you know, we have emergency contacts for you know, if I'm, if I decide to go and do plumbing for the for the day, and then I do something, you know, fall off a ladder, they'll probably call my mum. Right. So that's a physical industry. But do you have a emergency contact? If someone's displaying manic symptoms or schizophrenic symptoms? Like, could that be a different person you talk to? And would that save some time that that that's quite interesting to me, just off the top of my head?

Well, the frustrating thing for me is when you knew they were getting sick, and we all knew they were getting six, sick two to three weeks prior. And even the mental health worker who was there support said, Oh, she has to be made involuntary. So she has to get so unwell, that we make her involuntary. So you've got a two to three week period where you know, she's not well, you know, she's driving your car and got a family and stuff. Here we had down there this is even the psychologist would say, you have to let it go to get really unwell, then you can make her and then we make her involuntary. And that's still the case with the cyst. That's why I asked that question, because I was very curious to hear about your process with your hospitalisation. And how was that just trying to reflect reflected back to you? Yeah.

I mean, I've always been, and this is for my entire mental health journey. I've always been super fortunate with the support network around me. And I just know that other people haven't been as lucky. So every time I have had that, you know, that made manic phase or felt like I've been going that way, I've been able to have people around me. So this is, you know, that's, and that's probably why I've been able to be so high functioning or, you know, get over the things that that has been harder for other people is because of that support network. You know, is there a way that we can build that for more people? How do we have that support network? When it's when it's not in place? You know, I've had two great parents, friends, family partners. And that's something that, yeah, I've really relied on and, and, you know, very fortunate to have that, but I know there's a lot of people that don't have that. So how could we replicate that? That would be a question that I'd be interested in, in kind of figuring out an answer to. Because who knows your owners, your mom, your mom has self

are back in we're back in Perth, she has zero people because we had no family in Perth, Brisbane, move to the country Victoria, she's from attention, one of 11 So she has all her brothers and sisters. So that was that was good. But you know, her condition is pretty seriously, you know, she wouldn't listen anyone and all that sort of stuff, want to take a medicine and I don't have anything wrong with me, all that sort of stuff. So you sort of got to want help as well. So, you know, I think being able to acknowledge your condition, and that's the reality and deal with it's very impressive, because I don't think a lot of people do do that for a myriad of things anyway.

Yeah. I mean, that's like, that's an interesting thing as well, because it was interesting. And one of the meetings that we had, it was a young girl came in, she just been diagnosed and we all kind of were talking about how it felt to be diagnosed. And my answer was, it was hard to kind of come up with Because for me, it was just like, Well, when I got diagnosed, it was like, Okay, well, this is the condition. This is what happens. This is why you've been feeling that way. And this is why your episode happened. This is the solution. And you know, means you take medication, we might need to, you know, play around with it a bit. But like, I was very much like, this is what you do. And for me that made the acceptance of it all really quite easy. Again, I'll go back and say I was I was fortunate to have that support that work. But yeah, that was that was an interesting, an interesting experience, for sure.

And what's your opinion on what we have to do next? Because if you look at the amount of awareness that's been created, and the suicide rate, yes, probably about about the same, yet, we've got obviously a lot more understanding, it's still, that doesn't seem to be having really much impact on the data anyway. So what do you think the next step is? Or what's Why is it keep happening? Is it social media coming into more players? They're just what is what's what's take a stab at it?

I really like what you said. And it's supposed to you've made and you've said it in this interview as well, the time for awareness is over, but but action should be here. I think the the thing now is awareness is there. So when you bring it up with people they can comprehend and, and kind of take that on board? But then what's the conversation? What does that conversation look like? So you know, I tell someone bipolar, what are the next? What should a normal conversation about that look like? And, you know, should everyone have a level of understanding of okay, well, if I know, may the mind's not in a good headspace. What are some things that I can recommend to the mall? Can I ask if they're doing not even recommend to Guy ask if they're, you know, so knowing the things that that make people mentally fit again? So I guess it's, it's the awareness is there, but now it's like, okay, can we can we kind of understand what practically we can do to, to help? Even if it's just like, hey, you talking to a doctor? I think that's for me, that would be the next thing. And then I'm, I always say it, it's because because I've been so fortunate with the support network, I think the next thing is building those support networks or teaching the Yeah, this is probably better teaching the person with the mental illness, what they should do to give people more awareness. So, you know, there's awareness in general of the of the honest, but what are you? What are you telling that the person with a mental illness of how can we communicate this to our friends? How can we, what can we tell them to give them strategies for us? So I think put the burden a little bit onto onto, you know, myself and other people and say, here's some strategies that you can tell your friends about, about your mental illness rather than now this person knows about just depression, you know, how can we educate out the people around me about the conditions we have? I think that's, that's something as well.

Yeah, I think that's definitely a good point. Because, um, you obviously, we have a lot of hotlines and numbers where you can text and get a qualified psychologist to call you back and stop, which is fantastic. It's very hard to make people willing to take that step. But I think equipping those is random with strategies and having the person as well, you know, these are the strategies and having more generalised knowledge about everyone. All right, well, there's a mental health condition here. What is actually going to help this person? Is it something where, you know, we get up and move or we go and do something? Or what do you actually what are some actual tangible strategies? If they tell me about schizophrenia, right? Can I refer to something like, schizophrenia, bit of awareness around the condition, but these are some maybe general strategies, you want to talk to the person about an actual actionable items that you can actually try and do something because I know if you at least did something that way, if you had a friend or a family member that and you tried something, and then whatever happened, like, you know, if something happened, at least you've, you know, you've done something, the worst thing would be knowing, knowing that the person's condition and you could have said something or done something, you've just done very little. So how can we get those strategies into people's hands? Whether it be an app or something? I don't know, but because I know that there's a lot of PDFs and stuff available. But you know, how do you make that common knowledge? Is that something where you educate people in workplaces or schools or whatever it is? You I don't know. Because I don't know what schools do at the moment. But I think schools would be a perfect place. You know, if people younger and younger, obviously social media is such a big thing and mental health of kids. You think that I know they've got men? I think it's a dedicated mental health professional, something starting in Victorian schools. But yeah, where do you start from those strategies in place to actually get some tangible, tangible outcomes that across that, that line?

Yeah, well, exactly. And I think the other thing is, you know, we all go through some level of first aid training as well. People know what to do if something one's having a stroke or even even epileptic fit people know that kind of get things away from them and that sort of thing. Do you have those same procedures? Or is there a first aid training that you can do for mental health? Possibly that's that's something and then you?

I'm not, because I'll interrupt you. Sorry. Cuz I love that point. Because I know we've been running with our job. And it's, um, how many people do you know have had an epileptic seizure? As compared to how many people do you know how the mental health condition or have had some form of mental illness? Or let's say, one's a lot more than the other? I've never seen anyone have an epileptic fit, not saying it doesn't happen. But I know a lot more people have had mental health issues. So it's a fantastic point what you said, can we make that training, you know, the first aid training and other mental health first aid training? But can we incorporate that into one almost?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's it. That's a really interesting point. Yeah. I've never seen an epileptic fit. I've talked to more people about mental health,

on how to do the pain and how to stop the pain on prem. Yeah, to do that, you know, and do some compressions, that sort of stuff. But yeah,

I've never I've never used it, though. But I haven't used I haven't used live experience to talk about mental health. So yeah, that is an interesting point,

though, where do you say, you know, we're in 2021, we're coming out of a pretty, pretty unique time in the last last two years. And obviously, there's been a lot of mental health issues and stuff like that, you know, regardless, not getting into politics here. But you know, people would say, our mental health issues, and the other side would say, well, suicides still the same, what sort of stuff? Well, I think I don't think people realise that PTSD is a very real thing. And in this two years, there's been a lot of trauma that people don't realise, and it's something that's going to come out in probably five to 10 years time. And I don't know, just throwing a lot of money. Because we know how much of an issue mental health is, is going to fix this in particular. So what are your thoughts on let's say, the next year or the next couple of years for coming out of lockdown?

It's gonna be really interesting. And I think the thing that I'm fascinated about is the acceptance of hybrid work, which I think is fantastic. I think it's right to be able to work from home two days a week. But is there going to be that same awareness of being able to physically see if someone's doing okay. Whereas, you know, they might not show up to work on the office, two days, and then you go, Oh, hang on, is that person? Okay, so, so it'd be interesting to kind of have some thoughts around, what does it look like to be mentally Okay, at home as well, where it's really easy to just go to the next room, close the blinds and, you know, go into a depressive episode. Especially for me, you know, especially for my experience, that that's sort of what was happening last three, three weeks or so four months. That that would be that'd be interesting, as we're kind of coming into that as the more expected norm. I think people are pretty, because it was such a, you know, the last few years has impacted a lot of people with their mental health. I think it's helped the conversation. Go along a little bit more. So I think there's there's also been some positives that come from it too, but I don't know, what do you think what do you think is should be kept an eye eye on yourself?

Well, I think you know, for 22 years or whatever, you know, the mental health system has been really neglected. It's quite annoying, because Greg Hunt, who's the Federal Minister for Health, Greg Hunt had a bipolar mother who ended up who died in a psycho psychiatric ward. So if anyone who knows you know that mental health and how to fix children especially, it's great, I'm actually trying to get him on the podcast, because I think he's stories very important to share. been fantastic. I'd love I'm gonna try that and guess manages Instagram, so there's no point message I can get through his email and presume he's getting a lot of hate from the vaccination people and down in the Yeah, it was gonna be struggle, but um, the I think throwing money at it's allocating money is good, but hopefully it's spent well, putting a billion dollars to more awareness things, I don't think it's going to do much actually, to programmes to actually, that really helped people. Whether the repurposing paste spaces in the city mental health allowances for businesses to give the staff if they need to get some extra support. I think workplaces still got a long way to go. I'm not going to back my job at all. But I do know this still misjudging it for my experience is still a very old school mentality with a lot of bosses towards mental health. And that's not their fault. That's just the way I think a lot of if you're in a lot of older bosses might be like to say 50 Plus, they've still got that. I don't think they've got that real understanding of, of mental illness and they and how to fix people and stuff like that for my experience, but

again, I must say, I'm like the luckiest person in the world when it comes to mental health because again, I had a boss at the time when I was going through a depressive episode. It was fantastic. He actually didn't understand. He didn't understand that to start with, but he was interested enough to ask questions to want to understand. And then he also had some lived experience with people in his personal life. But a really awesome line from him that he said to me one day, he's like, I find it very hard to empathise with the situation because he, you know, he was mentally healthy. But he wanted to simplify as an online. And, and that was really, that was really cool. And to this day, we still have a friendship, I still call him. And it was fantastic. If you look at sort of mental health and their how a corporate workplace should deal with it. That was fantastic. Just that, that sort of interest to understand what was what was going on and going, Okay, I actually don't understand bipolar as much as I as I as I do, but I want to, I want to learn about it. And that was, that was a really fascinating experience. And I think that would be an interesting thing for some employers to actually kind of take care to factor into it.

Yeah, cuz I think there's a lot of lip service, I think a lot of corporate show fronting where they will be a part of all these organisations and stuff, but internally, I would say from knowing people, the culture is not reflective of the external, you know, community involvement for say, yeah,

there's like talk, talk versus action, you know, very easy to change, change your logo to, you know, mental health awareness thing, or, you know, you see the rainbow logos on a very easy to easy to find your logo, very easy to speak about it a little bit harder to take action. So, yeah, again, super fortunate that that was the experience that I had, but I know that there's certain other bosses and workplaces that would still be a little bit backwards.

I love your line there. What you said for your boss that is very, I mean, it's very practical, and it's very relatable like I can relate to it as well. Like, you might not be able to empathise with somebody you can sympathise with someone. I think that's such a fantastic perspective because that's in reality, a lot of the times like if, for example with me, like I find it very hard to empathise with somebody comes to me that mental health is just had minor depression everything hospitalised they've had this never had this. I find it very, you know? Well, you don't know. That's just the way that I can sympathise with the condition. I think it's a perfect way to look at it. It's a fantastic line from your old boss. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. So what are you what are you what are your plans for next year? What what are you what are you looking forward

to? Yeah, so this year has been really really awesome with the with the business I've kind of grown consistent clients and it's been it's been really fun, just being able to build something that I enjoy doing and having a schedule that fits around my lifestyle on my health, I'm really going to focus on because the biggest thing this year that's been great, especially from a mental health perspective, is outsourcing certain tasks. So I started like most businesses or small businesses because you're good at a skill and you enjoy something but now I've kind of dipped my toe into outsourcing some of the tasks and that's been fantastic training people to do do what I'm doing sort of in the back end and I think my biggest thing for next year is to really kind of get off the get off the tools as much as I can because that's the thing it also helps with my health too because sometimes if I'm up at 1am 2am editing something you know I should be should be sleeping and looking after my health so if I can get more more people with the outsourcing part of part of the business that will be really fun. I enjoy teaching I enjoy training so So that'd be good. And and then again yeah, my biggest goal this year for health was to go through the year without a sustained period of depression and I got through winter which is usually a period that I would slip down into without without any kind of dips, which was which was fantastic. There were probably about Yeah, three weeks, four weeks where I did fall into a bit of a mental health but I'd say that I did that goal this year so so for next year if I can do everything that I need to keep healthy for the entire 12 months that would be a that would be a successful successful year. Again this stuff

how can people find you in your business view your website live yet or? Website? Yeah,

yeah, I think I think I even said like, it's 30 I should get the website.

I'm the same as you. Yeah.

Um, LinkedIn is great. If you want to contact me on LinkedIn and Yeah, so timberland that's probably the the best base or Instagram. And then Facebook as well. Pretty contactable or even message, Joe. So, yeah, I'll I'll get my website up and

is wondering Tim's Tim's businesses a lot of things but um, it's a lot of content, you know, teach how to do a podcast set up a podcast, the whole strategy behind it, you'll record episodes with them and then clip it up and all that sort of stuff of repurposing the that you're interested in that sort of thing. What else level studios Well, beyond that, yeah, so

basically, like the the thing this year, it's been it's been creating three months worth of content for people in 45 minutes of their time. So maybe then weekly, fortnightly or monthly, we facilitate a conversation, I go away, edit that up and find all the best bits from that. So they've got consistent content for for a really lengthy period of time. So they wake up and they don't have to worry about what they're posting.

This is something every business owner needs. Yeah. So thanks for coming along SEMA really appreciate your openness and some great advice I love that line about the the empathy and sympathy that's fantastic. There. Really appreciate it and good luck with everything with your business and um, and also keep doing what you're doing.

Oh, thanks, man. I really appreciate chatting and thanks for having me on. Always good talking to you either recorded on microphone or or even just Facebook chatted some. Yeah, enjoy chatting to you. And thank you for Yeah, being being someone we've in my support network as well. So I appreciate that.

Nice. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Nice. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Thanks for your time.